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Jul 7, 2020

EP:20 Giving Away My Age with guest Bob Lotich,

Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes.  That's M, like Mary, v-e-l-o-p-e-s. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system all in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose! And now, Here's Mary! 


Mary Hunt: [00:00:32] Everyone. I'm so happy to have you back with me on this episode of Debt Proof Living. And boy, am I excited! This is a first for us. We're new to this business anyway, but this is an absolute first. We're having an interview! I have invited a guy that I have known of and spoken with, not met face to face yet.

Perhaps that'll happen someday soon, but I have followed Bob Lotich on his blogs now for several years, lots of years. And I gotta tell you this guy's got it all together. I love what Bob teaches. He, he comes at personal finance and money management from a Biblical viewpoint. Now I'm not saying that this is a church service or a Bible study necessarily, but I'm telling you Bob 

and I share so many values because we are both followers of Jesus Christ. And if that cannot help, but to color our lives and the way that we handle everything, the way that we manage our money. And the way that we teach. So I am thrilled to death to have Bob with us today. Now, let me tell you a little bit about him.

He is a certified educator in personal finance. That means he gets to put at the end of his name, CEPF and he started a blog called SeedTime. it was originally called Christian Personal Finance or ChristianPF is probably the way you might remember it way back in 2007. That was not that long ago because I started way back in 1997 online.

So. We go back a long time. But anyway, his passion is to help fellow believers like me and like many of you to learn how to manage your money wisely., His personal mission and the mission of his blog Seedtime, is to make, save, grow and give money to benefit others. Isn't that awesome? I love that. Make, save, grow and give. After all says Bob, life, isn't about the accumulation of things, but it's about how much we can make a difference in this world by giving.

And I gotta put my parentheses in here. We are certainly in a time right now during this global disruption, our lives have been so disrupted. what better time then we can look at the whole world to find ways that we can help and give and serve. In 2017 SeedTime donated 36% of all e-course sales to Feed My Starving Children, which has provided 79,000 meals to hungry kids around the world.

That is  just amazing. Amazing. Once Bob realized that by paying off his debt, he could fund God's kingdom  instead of paying interest to banks, it provided a deeper level of motivation for him and his wife to get out of debt. That sealed the deal. Bob and Linda spent the next couple of years paying off their $46,000 of debt in their first years of marriage.

Bob also has a passion for helping entrepreneurs, get their business ideas off the ground. And he's written two fabulous books, helping bloggers and want-to-be-bloggers build and grow their blogs. 

So if you have that in your mind, you really, really need to check out Bob Lotich.  Anyway, when Bob isn't working, he is likely hanging out with his wife, Linda, their kids, Alden, Valerie, and Oliver.

Working on his garden. Eating some artisanal dark chocolate .Playing his guitar or riding his motorcycle. And sometimes, you ready? All at the same time!  Now I have to see a picture of this. And so without any further hesitation or delay welcome, Bob!


Bob Lotich: [00:04:13] Mary, thank you so much. It is an honor to be here. It's an honor to be speaking with you.

You've been a role model and a mentor for many, many years, and I'm just thrilled to be able to chat. 


Mary Hunt: [00:04:24] we're so happy to have you here. Bob, there's so much that you could teach us about. All of us! And, you know, I put myself in that too, because some of these lessons, we have to keep learning over and over and over again.

And, and with what we've gone through recently, I am certain that many people listening to me now are much more aware of the need to plan, prepare to manage their money well. So let's get right to it. What was your inspiration for beginning your blog SeedTime, and then tell us where did that name, that word come from, SeedTime? The name of that you named your blog.  


Bob Lotich: [00:04:59] So in terms of actually starting the blog, like you alluded to it originally was Christian PF. And, and for me, I, I was in a mess financially. I was just in debt up to my eyeballs and just didn't know how to move out of that spot in life. And once I discovered that the Bible actually talked a lot about money and, and then once I discovered that some of this advice was actually still relevant for today.

So even this book, that's thousands of years old and actually had timely and relevant, you know, age old wisdom that was still beneficial for us today. then I started getting interested in this and, and I was, you know, learning a whole bunch of practical things about money. I was reading every magazine and book

I could get my hands on. But then I was also digging into the Bible to see what that had to say about everything. And I sort of started combining these two ideas, these two sources of information. And that's what kind of led me to create this blog. Cause I just wanted to share what I was learning with anyone who would listen.

And that's kind of how we got it off the ground. Now, we did change the name to SeedTime a few years ago, we kind of rebranded and that comes from a verse in Genesis. Genesis 8:22. And, it's where God's talking about how there will always be the law of seed time and harvest. And that's kind of where that comes from. This idea. That the fascinating thing for me is that, pretty much, if you look at everything that God does, it almost always starts with the seed.

you know, and so you can apply that to so many areas, but our financial, our finances and our. financial growth or any growth in any area of our life. It always starts with something really, really small. And that's where the power is, being able to take that small thing and to start and to just care for that, to water that seed and to keep caring for that and to let that grow into the mighty oak that it will become.


Mary Hunt: [00:06:46] That is fabulous. You know, as you were saying that I can't help, but think some of the things that I've been telling my grandchildren and my kids and myself in this past few months, Is that we have to grab onto the things that we know will never change. We're looking at things that can change and have changed in ways that we'd probably never dreamed, but you're absolutely right.

Seed time. We should count on that. We can count on the sun coming up in the morning, going down at night. There are things that God has given us that will never, ever change. How wonderful to grab onto that. That, that is, that is really, really that's fabulous. So you've kind of already alluded to this. I was going to ask you what role has debt

and savings played in your life? So let's, let's look at that debt thing. I, you know, I've been there as well. How did debt affect you personally? And can you contrast that with where you are now? And I need emotionally, day to day, the difference between debt and debt free for you and Linda. 


Bob Lotich: [00:07:50] Yeah. you know, and like we had talked before, I know a little bit of your story and, what it was like for you and, yeah.

And coming back to the Bible, this was one of the first verses that I discovered where it's like, that makes so much sense. You know, it was a verse in Proverbs where it talks about how the borrower is slave to the lender. And when I read that, like, that's exactly how I feel. That's exactly how I feel like, you know, the bank owns my car and they own my house and they, you know, all these credit card companies are hanging this thing over my head and the student loans.

All this stuff. It's like, I felt like every dollar that I had was someone else's and I felt like I'm going to work to give money to these companies. And it was a very, yeah. Relative to where we are now, we are now 100% debt free by the grace of God and we're tickled pink and enjoying it. But, but comparing the two different things, it's very clear.

That, that was a very unsettling feeling. and I knew that then, but like, especially contrasting it to being a hundred percent debt free. It's just so much different. And you know, my encouragement to people all the time is it's good. Like, I'm sure you think that it's good when you pay for your dad, but it is just, it's so good.

It's so much better. It feels so much richer than I think most people imagine. And I think if everybody knew how great it would be, feel to be a hundred percent debt free. I think a lot more people would be chasing it.


Mary Hunt: [00:09:15 ]I couldn't agree with you more. And I'm looking right now and reading my in inbox, my email from people who, who came into this time of life is shut down of our country, losing their jobs and all with tons of debt and no savings.

And that's horrific. I mean, we're starting to see the fallout of that. I'm wondering if you and Linda did, was it just, is it, has this just been a little blip in the road? Because you are prepared, you have savings. You are not depending, on a paycheck every Friday or whatever like that. And I really like our listeners to understand how important it is to plan. 


Bob Lotich: [00:09:54] You know, that was part of being able to pay off our debt or what will got us excited about paying off our debt. Cause it would be able to build up a bigger emergency fund. for stuff like this, you know, and so we were able to do that and, you know, and we've gone through hiccups, like, I went through a pretty scary layoff. that kind of was my transition into being an entrepreneur. And that was the same type of thing where that, that emergency fund, really helped us considerably get through that phase of a lot of personal uncertainty.

And now we're in kind of global uncertainty and, you know, the government keeps throwing money at us, but. Like, that's not going to last forever. That's not going to solve our problems. And it's like, it's nice. Then it will help some people, but that's not a long term solution. Like we need to be, figuring these things out for ourselves and getting in a solid financial spot ourselves so we can better handle these things. And yeah, in our case, It has been, yeah, personally it still affects us.

It's like, you're not immune to it when you're debt free, but, but it's definitely on a much lower level and scale than it would be if we were still carrying all the debt we were before. Like, I don't want to think about how we would be thinking and how we'd be handling this. If we. Had that, that load that we had before.


Julie Emerson:  Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Okay. Hi, I'm Julie. Producer a Debt Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck. Many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives. 

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Mary Hunt:  [00:12:15] yeah. I have a question for you that I get quite often, especially from younger folks, I think that they're facing life. You know, how do I manage debt? Not how do I live without debt? It's become a way of 

life for 

them, but this is the question, you know, Jesus told us, why do you worry? Don't you know, that the father takes care of even the birds.

They don't worry. They don't wonder where the next meal is coming. Why are you worried? Don't worry about tomorrow. Yeah, but then we read in another part of the Bible, like in the Psalms that says, or the Proverbs, you know, that look at the ant, they don't, they don't play all summer. They are gathering for the winter

that's coming. How do you explain, how do we plan for the future? But yet trust God for the future. Where, where is that balance? And are we foolish to say, God will take care of tomorrow and spend it all today that He's given me. 


Bob Lotich:  [00:13:15] Yeah. That is a, a wonderful question. That. I wish I had the answer to, you know, this is something that we, Linda and I, even at this moment, like we still have discussions about this, where we are trying to figure out that perfect balance point of using wisdom.

You know, like you have many instances, you have Joseph in the Bible, being instructed during the years of plenty to save up for the years of famine that were coming like. It's it's, you know, using wisdom to plan ahead, like the, you know, the Proverb you mentioned it's clearly a Biblical principle, but at the same time, like we can't trust in any of that.

And I find for me personally, when I find myself trusting in my savings account too much. Trusting in my sort- my income source, whatever it is. if I am doing that too heavily, like God will correct me. Like, I will sense that like, Nope, I don't want you leaning on that. I want you leaning on me as your provider and to trust.

And it's like, it's good that you're doing that and using wisdom, but yeah, for us, that's been just a constant thing where, where we're trying to find that perfect spot. And honestly, I don't know that there is a perfect spot. I think that those two pieces have to work together. And I think that, you know, the unfortunate answer for a lot of us is that it's a personal

individualized thing that we're all in different places on our journey. And, if we are followers of Jesus, that that's something that we can trust that God is going to guide us on individually, you know, Holy spirit leading us in whatever direction. but yeah, it's a tough one. It's a really tough one.

I wish there was a pat black and white answer, but, I don't think it's that clear cut. 


Mary Hunt:  [00:14:55] Just interject and share this, that. As this whole shutdown thing happened so quickly in the U S in the early months of 2020, my husband and I, who w w we have emergency savings. I mean, you know, six months living expenses in the bank, I think is a pretty good benchmark.

And as I look at it, now, I understand it's so much more why we need to plan, because we've been able to help others. Okay. And that giving thing, when we lived in California, we went to Saddleback Church. And so Rick Warren was my pastor and I still consider him that way. And I'll never, ever forget something that he said in a sermon that has just, it impacted my life.

So seriously, he says, this. Money is a test and a trust. God puts money into your life to see if he can trust you with it. And if you spend it all on yourself and you squander it and you have nothing to show for tomorrow, He knows He can't, He can't trust you. So it's almost as if God put this, these funds and this resources into our lives, so that we'd be able to serve Him.

And that almost brings me to tears. As I see that new dimension of planning, it's not just for us, just not to pay our bills. And you know, for people who have debt, they still need to have savings. They still need to have emergency fund, but it's sad when that money has to go to the bank. So I, I just applaud you and absolutely how you explained that you've brought new meaning to those verses to me. And I, I really thank you for that. So you're saying that if I'm planning that doesn't show, I'm not trusting. 


Bob Lotich: [00:16:37] Yeah. I mean, this is the thing, like we, we literally were having a conversation about this the other day because our business has changed a lot over the last few years where, A few of the sources of revenue that we were kind of leaning, or I should say me, this is probably more me than Linda.

Linda is a little better about this, but I just tend to lean too much on one source of revenue. And it's like, if you have a job, like it's easy to view your job or your employer as your provider, but that's a dangerous place to be. because they're really not your provider, you know? And when you're in that position, then you lose your job.

And suddenly, you know, your whole world is turned upside down. But as a believer, like we should be able to go through that. And that being like the storm, when Jesus is asleep on the boat, you know, in this hurricane type, wind situation, And he's at rest because he knows his father is going to take care of him and that he's not going to drown or whatever the thing may be.

And the same thing can be applied to our lives. So regardless of what's going on in the world, around us, you know, in this case with the pandemic, all the economic uncertainty and job loss and everything else. Like, we can still trust God that He's going to do that. But when we're trusting too much in our business or in the government or in our job or whatever, the thing may be, we're just on shaky ground.

That is not a good place to be standing. 


Mary Hunt: [00:18:00] Okay. I have a question for you. First I want to, I want to remind my listeners that we have a podcast series, which is based on my book The 7 Money Rules for Life. And of course, one of my rules is that from what you receive, you must always give some away.

And there's a reason for that. I've got lots of reasons, but I want to hear your reasons, Bob, because when it comes to giving, I've learned from you, that you put a lot of people to shame. Tell us about your- and what you and Linda have decided to do with living, with giving. I'm sorry, with giving away money that God puts into your hands.


Bob Lotich: [00:18:37] I just want to say. I mean, you mentioned I was putting people to shave and just so we're clear, like, all we have done is obeyed what we sense the Lord leading us to do, and everybody's on their own giving journey. And yeah, my encouragement to everyone is to push yourself a little bit further and we can talk a little bit about what we've gone through and what the Lord led us to do.

But I didn't start out, I started out as a child, pretty selfish, and pretty self centered. And, one of my earliest memories was thinking was actually talking to my younger sister who is three years younger than me. I was probably 10 at the time. And I remember telling her, you know, when I get older, I'm going to be really rich and I'm going to have this big, old mansion.

I'm going to have a tennis court inside, a basketball court inside, two pools. I'm going to have all this stuff and just laid up, named off everything in this giant mansion I was going to have. I said, and you can't come in!  And she started crying. And, it's one of my earliest memories about kind of, you know, and it's just a sibling thing, but, I was thinking just about myself and just about all the wealth that I could accumulate, you know, and that carried over into my teen years, when I really began to serve the Lord and he began to work on my heart and I think it's just interesting that generosity would become like one of Linda and I's biggest passions.

and so over the next couple of years, my introduction to giving and tithing kind of came at a church that I was at, that was not real great. And so I was attending this church and watched a guest preacher come up and, go up to the alter and basically real small church, probably a hundred people.

Everybody knew each other. And goes up to the altar and says, I want everyone who's not tithing to raise your hand. I'm a fairly new Christian at this point. And I'm like, this does not feel right. Is this what's normal? You know? And I I've since learned that that's not normal. And so he goes on to two people in the congregation, raised their hands and he called them up to the altar and he just continued to kind of berate them in front of the entire congregation

for not tithing. And, you know, and as a very new believer, I I'm like, I, this just doesn't feel right. I just don't think this makes sense. And thankfully in my Bible, I went on to read in second Corinthians 9, where talking about, you should not give out of compulsion, you know, And it's like that certainly was compulsion.

But anyway, my point is, this is kind of how I was introduced to this idea of tithing. So it wasn't the best introduction. but I, you know, as I studied this principle more, I came to realize that it's not about giving to the preacher. It's not about giving to church even, it's about giving to God. And so that was kind of how we got started by giving 10% of our income.

And we did support our local church with it. And at that point, we just noticed, I don't know, everything seem to make a lot more sense financially. It was really weird. but yeah, it just seemed like everything began to click a lot better. and we had some kind of really cool miraculous things happen around that

financially. But everything was just working better. And then we noticed that God would just kind of call us to give a little bit more and do a little more here and just always stretching us a little bit towards this a little bit uncomfortable and a little bit like, ah, I don't know about that, but we'll do it because I feel like this is what you're asking us to do.

And then ultimately that kind of led to when I was 31 years old, I was kind of spending some time praying in a field. And I was praying about some financial struggles that we were having, you know, kind of praying for the solution to these problems, these financial problems and these financial goals that we wanted to reach.

And I felt the Lord just kind of, you know, impress in my heart. If you want to see me really move on your finances, I want you to give your age as a percentage of your income. And so I was 31 at the time and I. You know, it took me a minute. Like, what is that? Is that even possible? Like, it's we have enough to do that.

Like, you know, anyway, so I'm like trying to mentally run the numbers and like, I don't even know if we can make that work. And anyway, so I went back home and talked to Linda and she amazingly, she was on board. She was like, yeah, let's do it. You know? So it's like, all right, let's try this out. So we began doing that and, Yeah, like, this is what is so amazing about this.

Like we, well, it seemed like that should have taken us away from our financial goals we're trying to reach. But within that year we had paid off our house. Like, it makes no sense at all, but that's just what happened. And. You know, so it's just really amazing, that he's kind of led us on this journey and the kind of, some of the breakthrough and the financial peace that has come as a result of yielding to what He's asked us to do. 


Mary Hunt: [00:23:29] that is, you know, you cannot out-give God.

I mean, we hear that. Yeah. We have other people say that but it's hard to turn that loose in your life. That is difficult because. But I'll tell you what I can tell you the same kinds of stories. And it's absolutely true that people need to experience this for themselves. That is great. You know, I hate to tell you this, but what have you lived to be a hundred?


Bob Lotich: [00:23:55] Yeah, no, I'm excited. I think it'll be fun challenge. Yeah. I mean, that's one of my goals. I can't wait till we get to the point where we're giving away 90% of our income and I hope we get to do it before age 90. 


Mary Hunt: [00:24:06] All right. So, so Bob, I know that you have a practice in your life that I would love to put into my life, and I would not even know where to begin.

And that is that you take sabbatical time. Time off, time to get away. Now, I kind of relate to this, or I know a lot of our listeners can, because we've all been given a bit of a sabbatical over the last couple of months, especially folks who have been furloughed or laid off from their jobs unexpectedly, but yeah.

Can you tell us about that? How you do it, how often you do it and what that has helped, what has that done for your life? 


Bob Lotich: [00:24:43] Yeah, so, you know, being a business owner, like you are like, it's, it's scary taking one day and just stepping away from your business. It's your baby. And it always feels like you need to care for it and you need to be present.

And so. probably about seven or eight years ago, I decided I was going to take one week off and step away from the business. And I kind of felt like I was supposed to do this, but I was also terrified and I decided I wasn't gonna check email the entire time. Wasn't gonna check any comments. It wasn't just completely stepping away for entire week.

And I was terrified. I was just absolutely terrified that when I came back, it was going to be gone. It would have blown up. It would have been hacked. It would have any number of things. And, but I did it and I made it through that week and it felt really good and it just really provided a lot of clarity of mind that I needed at the time.

And, and so anyway, so I just really enjoyed that and I decided about six months later, a year later, I wanted to try to press it and stretch a little bit more. And I asked what if we do this for an entire month? And, and the same feelings of just like fear. And there's no way we can actually do this. we're there, it was just really present and I was really scared and again, same type of thing.

And, but we started to do it and again, like stepped away from email from entire month. that time I was a little bit of a chicken and I told my assistant, I had assistant at the time. And I told her that was going to call her once a week and just check in with her and make sure everything was okay.

But after that month, the benefits that I received from it were so wonderful that I, I've done it every year since. And I've just, I've just been so addicted to the benefit of it. And so we can talk a little bit about that. You know, one of those biggest benefits for me is just being able to see things from a 10,000 foot view. Because, I'm the type of person who is, I just put my head down and I just work and I run towards whatever the thing I'm doing.

And it, when, if you're a worker like that, who isn't real great at stepping back and looking at the big picture, like you can just do that and do that for years and years on end and find yourself somewhere where you don't want to be. And where you never intended to go. Or building a business that, you know, controls you and runs your life rather than a business that you run. Or whatever

the thing may be. Down a career path that you never intended to go down. But being able to step back just completely decompress and take an honest look at where you are, where you want to go and do that with a clear head has been so incredibly valuable for me. That, yeah, it's like I'm sold on it and we're addicted and we're just going to keep doing it.


Mary Hunt: [00:27:32] That is amazing. So what is, what is the longest sabbatical you've taken? 


Bob Lotich: [00:27:37] Yeah. Well, I can tell you about that one too. I was really gonna freak you out. So, 


Mary Hunt: [00:27:41 I already know, what's coming.


Bob Lotich: [00:27:43] Three years ago, we, And this one, wasn't my idea at all. but I felt like the Lord was leading me to take an entire year off.  And, and so in 2017, we stepped away from the business for an entire year, which, and every single time, like it's just absolutely terrifying. And every single time, like I watched God sustain us through it, cover us financially through it and, and cover all the things that I'm worried about and freaked out about.

And that year was no different. And, and in fact, like the timing of it was really special and precious. So we, that year we had kind of put our name in the hat to adopt. And the agency we, that we were working with at the time said, you know, they're really kind of cookie cutter and had really good systems in place.

And they said, basically we bring birth mothers in, in a three to four month range after they've gotten pregnant. And so basically you have, you know, five or six months heads-up notice you can get everything prepared. And so you can get to know the birth mother and all these things, you know, for this phase. It's like, this is our standard process. This is how we do it.

So we had done that about three months. It right at the beginning of the year and in three months had gone by and we hadn't heard anything. And it was about March of that year when kind of we made this decision to take this year sabbatical thing. And, within four weeks of deciding that we were going to do this, we got a call from the adoption agency, after not hearing anything from them for three months. They said we actually have a special situation.

We have a little girl who was actually born last night and the birth mother, you know, has picked you guys. And so, if you, you know, approve, then we can move forward with this. So we got off the phone and, prayed about it for about 10 minutes. And we drove down to Alabama and picked up our little baby girl.

And the timing of it was just so wonderful because I had so much stuff planned that year that I don't know that we could have handled it. Because you know, for anyone who doesn't know when you do this, like you have to, so we had to drive down to Alabama and plan on being there for 14 days. Cause it's an interstate adoption.

And that's the process. Is you just have to stay there and you have to live out of a hotel with a newborn, and whatever, until you can get back. And then in our case, like, because we were expecting the six month kind of lead in, like we had gotten rid of our car seat, we'd given it to, Linda's, sister.

And we had gotten rid of all of our baby clothes and given them to someone else. So like we were starting from scratch. We literally, I had to run from the hospital to Target, to buy baby clothes and to buy a car seat. Just so unprepared! Anyway, so the timing just worked out so well. It was wonderful that I get to spend most of that first year with her.

Just really, really precious time that, I will cherish forever. 


Mary Hunt: [00:30:25] And it's amazing. I just love that. Well, you've got to answer the question of, do you have a staff who kept the business going? 


Bob Lotich: [00:30:33] Yeah, small, very small. so we have an operations manager, who just kind of helps and assists with a lot of, just the day to day operations and she ran, kept things afloat while we did it. But, but because like our businesses is a blog, you know, and we have some courses that we offer and we have, you know, podcasts, YouTube channel, all that stuff. Basically, we just put content on pause for the entire year. And so we would send out an email once a month or so, just to offer some of our previous content that we had done, you know, so just kind of reusing some of that content, but basically the question I had to ask and figuring out how to actually make this work is.

How do I do this sabbatical, in an, you know, and honor that as much as possible, while still honoring the students that we had, you know, some were paying for access to me. So I honored those commitments, which was probably about 30 to 60 minutes a week, relatively small, but I wanted to honor that because they'd paid for access to me.

And then I wanted to just continue to, if there was a way to automate serving our audience. And so what we did was through email, we just republished articles that were evergreen. that I had written years earlier, there were still timely and relevant. And so our operations manager kind of assisted with that.

And she handles all of the emails that came in for the entire year handled comments and like a lot of those things. So that was practically how, kind of, how we worked through that. 


Mary Hunt: [00:32:03] It sounds to me like you have a book in there somewhere. 


Bob Lotich: [00:32:06] Yeah. so I'm working on a book now and that a good bit of that is going to be in there.

I think 


Mary Hunt: [00:32:11] that's great. 

Yeah,  thanks so much for being with us. One last thing. So anything that you would like our DPL and everyday cheapskate listeners to know? 


Bob Lotich: [00:32:20] Yeah. I mean, yeah, kind of summing up or to put in a bow on everything that we've just talked about here. The, the thing that's so interesting to me about kind of the convergence of God and money is that if we allow him, like, if we are bold to follow him in obedience and the things that he's asking us to do.

Like, it's an absolute, amazing adventure. Like, I, I cannot, you know, when I became a Christian, I thought life was going to be really boring and whatever. Like I just had this, these visions that I am, you know, agreeing to sign up to this incredibly boring life and by following Jesus and really just going after it and leaning into these things, like it has been the most wild and amazing adventure that he has led us on.

And that is. My encouragement. It's like, if you're living, what feels like a boring mundane life, like just lean into God, like, cause that's where things really will start change for you. 


Mary Hunt: [00:33:14] That's great. Thank you so much, Bob, for being with us and I want everyone listening. Go visit Bob's blog,

You're going to love it and you are going to love  all of the stuff he and Linda do. They do live, facebook live. They do YouTube. You'll get to know them and their family. It's fantastic. Thanks so much, Bob. 


Bob Lotich: [00:33:37] Thank you, Mary. Really, really appreciate you having me.


Julie Emerson: [00:33:43]

Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

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